Interview of Christy Kobe, LCSW, CCTP by Agata Kubinska, LCSW on October 5, 2023

***In order to protect client confidentiality, identifying details have been withheld and answers to these questions have been given in reference to multiple clients, not referring to any one client in particular.***

Q: In your experience, why do women stay in relationships for as long as they do that end up in separation?

A: There are of course a variety of reasons for this. Some of the primary reasons I have seen are that first, there is a lot of pressure placed on women in our patriarchal society to be partnered in a heterosexual relationship, and partnered women in heterosexual relationships are given more social power, value and credibility—than single women, lesbian women or nonbinary individuals—which seems to play a role in these women deciding to remain in their heterosexual relationship. In the case of lesbian and nonbinary individuals, there are different pressures that may also encourage individuals to stay partnered: the homophobia still present in our society—especially in more religious and conservative regions—ostracizes many of these women from their families of origin and other systems of support, which puts increased pressure on these women and nonbinary individuals to stay partnered because they are isolated from other supports.  

Second, these women have often socialized, conditioned and directly told to stay with a partner no matter what, especially if that partner is a man. Under this socialization, separation and divorce is only socially acceptable or “justified” under extreme circumstances such as the partner being repeatedly physically abusive, an alcoholic or drug addict, cheating on them repeatedly, or being continuously unemployed. Women receive this message from their family and friends, religious leaders, and even Hallmark and Hollywood culture. That message and pressure is even more prevalent in communities with a predominant religion such as Utah where LDS (Mormon) culture discourages divorce. So, I have seen these women doubting themselves and questioning whether they are justified in leaving a relationship in which for example, their partner doesn’t meet their emotional needs, fails to do their part of the household and parenting work, is dishonest, or is irresponsible financially.

Third, these women often don’t have good models close to them of single, independent women and it is more difficult to be a trailblazer doing something we haven’t seen done before than it is to follow other women’s leads. 

Fourth, there are of course financial and logistical reasons (such as having children in common with their partner) that some of these women stay in these relationships as well. However, that does not seem to be a reason for staying for women of younger generations as frequently as was the case for Baby Boomers and generations prior to that. 

 Q: What are their hopes and dreams? Their fears? 

A: These women hope to have a fulfilling life as a single woman where they have meaningful relationships with friends and family, do meaningful work, and have a rich life of experiences outside of their career as well. In my experience, these women value meaningful connections with others and all types of relationships.

Some of these women hope to have a romantic relationship in which they can have a meaningful emotional connection in which the other person is vulnerable, accountable, self-aware, empathetic, a hard worker, physically active, financially stable, intelligent, and committed to their own growth and development as an individual. They commonly report that they want someone who strives for balance in their life and doesn’t use substances in excess. They want someone who is truly their equal and truly a partner, someone they don’t have to beg or plead with, remind and persuade in order for them to do their part of being in a relationship and being a mature, accountable and healthy individual.

Some of these women fear they will never have such a relationship. On the other hand, they also fear that if they stay in or settle for an unhealthy relationship, they would be more unhappy than being single or that they would be more unhappy than being single and also having the possibility having the potential for a healthy relationship with a healthy partner if they have such an opportunity in the future.  

These women grieve the loss of the dream of having the fulfilling and connected romantic relationship they had dreamed of, and many feel blind sighted by their partner not having lived up to his or her part of their relational commitments, yet they are often very relieved to have "dodged a bullet" by ending the relationship when they did or are grateful to no longer be in the relationship—regardless of how long it lasted— once they have separated.

These women who are often "crushing it” in their careers, and even though some of them believe feel like they or their love life are “a mess”, they don’t maintain that perception or feeling for very long after they've started therapy with me. Rather they gain clarity on the facts that their former romantic partners and the potential partners they’ve met up to that point (especially for heterosexual women) are not even close to as emotionally intelligent, active, ambitious, politically progressive, self-aware, evolved, responsible and intentional with their life as they are as an individual, and many of these women don't want to be in a relationship with someone who is not truly their equal and a partner in these areas. When these women are first generation, a child of immigrants or an immigrant themselves, the main difference I see is that they tend to not separate as soon because they tend to not have as robust a network of physical, financial or logistical support from family of origin, friends, coworkers, and community.

Q: What do women that want to work on relationships in individual therapy struggle with? What symptoms do they present with? What problems do they want help with?

A: These women want to work on increasing the security of their attachment style; working through the loss, hurt and trauma of their ended relationship; increase their skills in creating and maintaining all types of healthy relationships; and increasing their skills at recognizing unhealthy behaviors and dynamics and warning signs in their interactions with others. They begin therapy with symptoms of anxiety, overwhelm, grief, spiraling negative thoughts, feeling like they are “going crazy”, thoughts that just go in circles, shame and trauma symptoms. 

Q: What has been your experience working with first generation women, adult children of immigrant, or immigrants and their relationship problems?

A: These women often tend to partner up with an individual as a romantic partner who is overly close, enmeshed with, and even dependent on their family of origin. Sometimes this seems to be done unconsciously and other times it seems to be verbalized as a conscious choice since they themself have little to no family support near them in the U.S. Even when a woman verbalizes liking that her romantic partner is so close to their own family of origin, it is often a source of a lot of conflict in the couple’s romantic relationship, and hurst the couples connection and intimacy of all types.

When a relationship is unhealthy or abusive, these women may be more likely to stay long-term, or stay longer than women with more support, or find a new partner before leaving the relationship because they have less social support, fewer financial resources, and less knowledge of available social services and government aid and how to access these services, or they may not be able to access these services because of their residency, citizenship or visa status.

Q: Are there any unique considerations for first generation or adult children of immigrants that seek therapy?

A: I witnessed that these women seem to be more likely to face discrimination, pressure and unwarranted criticism from their partners and their partner’s family of origin when the woman wants to have more space from their partner’s family of origin, set healthy boundaries, or do things differently with her partner than how the partner’s family of origin has always done things. 

It is essential that the therapist be aware of and mindful of their potential for unconscious biases about this woman’s behavior and be seeking on-going, clinical consultation on such cases to ensure that they are providing culturally competent therapy. It is also of utmost importance that the therapist verbalize the power dynamics and impacts of macro systems and systems of oppression rather than putting responsibility on the individual client for discrimination and barriers they experience.

The therapy process will, of course, be more effective when the therapist obtains clear information from the client about their goals and what they need and are seeking from the therapist. The therapist needs to also be mindful of the power differential and cultural differences between therapist and client and name those with the client.

I recommend that the therapist slow down communication and interactions enough to check in as needed with the client on how they are feeling and perceiving the process, especially when the therapist’s own gut or nervous system indicates that something feels off.

Q: What particular challenges do these women seem exhibit in therapy?

A: These women’s challenges in the therapy process and in the relationship with the therapist often show up as attachment wounds, resistance to the therapy process and/or the therapeutic relationship which can show up as fear of feeling all of their emotions and physical sensations, experiencing the doubts they’ve had in previous relationships in the relationship with the therapist, and there is more fear or anxiety and more shame potential for individuals, the more trauma there is in the individual’s history.

However, going to therapy can be a revolutionary act for these women. These women often report having the perception that they would be burdening their parents by sharing their struggles and not wanting to burden their parents—especially if their parents are immigrants or live outside the country. Many of these women report a history of things feeling chaotic, stressful or unstable in their upbringing so they stay in a romantic relationship that also feels chaotic, stressful or unstable because it seems to feel familiar unconsciously and because their family of origin can’t support them physically, financially or logistically, which is often because of the families own lack of resources, so these women often enter therapy feeling “stuck”.